Wayne Besen, Richard Cohen on The Daily Show

by Randy on March 21, 2007 · Comments

Just a warning:  the above clip will probably make you laugh even though it is at the expense of the "ex-gay"; movement.  Also, when at the very end they check back with Wayne to see how he is doing… if you don’t want to see him kissing a guy for a long time… you might want to stop the video. UPDATE 3/22/07: YouTube pulled the video because of licensing conflict (Hat Tip: Warren)

Why am I posting something that makes a mockery out of my life?  I am posting this because for years I tried to get Richard Cohen to stop doing such ridiculous things on television and radio.  I have questioned him directly about his "coaching" approach.  Other people have questioned/confronted him as well and he doesn’t seem to listen.  Instead he has emoldened mockers like Howard Stern and Penn & Teller and now The Daily Show (clip above.)

::: Warning: Randy is on a Rant alert :::

I am not straight today because I listened to some silly tape (as Wayne Besen suggests), yelled at my parents while beating a pillow and acted like a belching jackass.  It should be noted that I don’t know that Cohen actually belched or if they added that in during editing.

I sincerely pray that it was NOT his idea.  Please tell me it was not Richard who actually belched.

I am not gay, ex-gay or anything other than a man made in God’s image (just like all of mankind) who has put his faith in Christ and trying to walk that out.

The guy on the video announces Richard as the foremost expert on "healing the gay" or something like that.  Richard is not the foremost of anything except making a spectacle of himself and completely misrepresenting the larger "ex-gay" movement.  He is not a part of Exodus and apparently not willing to take our private feedback and accountability to heart.

So, if he is willing to allow "ex-gays" to continue to be circus show fodder for those who mock our sincere beliefs, he deserves the public denouncement this post brings.

Richard Cohen does not represent me or thousands like me, who have moved beyond a life defined by being "gay."

As for Wayne Besen, he has hurt, insulted, slandered and attacked my friends and I for years.  He’s incredibly harsh and angry, not the mild mannered guy you see in the clip.  Even so, I had lunch with him at a conference not to long ago and if the circumstances of our lives were different, we would probably be friends.  And no … not the kissing kind. 

People can and do overcome homosexuality and it isn’t a freak show.  It’s serious, sincere and authentic for many of us.

Richard, stop doing these type of interviews and listen to us when we say that your therapeutic, coaching… whatever … approach is not above reproach as so obviously displayed every time you show up on television.

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Viewing 25 Comments

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    Randy:

    Just wanted to give you kudos for your even-handed, up-front review of both Richard Cohen and Wayne Besen. Both appear to do more harm than good for the causes they believe in. Thanks for going boldly where most on either side of this issue are afraid to go. Blessings, my brother.
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    Randy:

    It is important to remember that Exodus did not reject Cohen, but he left Exodus. In Cohen't book, he claims he went to Exodus for healing twice.

    The first time, an Exodus leader made a pass at him, so he walked away from your ministry. In his second experience, the leader of his group fell off the wagon and came out of the closet.

    If it were not for the failures of Exodus, Cohen would not have become the leading ex-gay healer that he is today.

    Also, you make fun of Cohen's methods as bizarre. Yet, you work for an organization that takes away peoples underwear if they are considered too gay. Your organization times people in the bathroom if they are in there too long, afraid they are fiddling. Your group hawks a book that asks adults to snap a rubberband on their wrists when they see a person who turns them on (Consiglio's book). Exodus has sold Satinovers book which suggests Prozac can cure homosexuality.

    In other words, Exodus is just a bizarre as Cohen. The only difference is that you have the good PR sense not to put your methods on TV. But if America could see the odd techniques that Exodus supports, you would also be laughed out of the room.

    The strange things people must do to convince themselves that they are straight!!

    Finally, bashing me does not help your cause. People who see me on TV or read my work know that I am quite mild mannered. Asking them to beleive you instead of their own eyes does not do much to enhance your credibility.

    Randy, I wish you well and think you are a nice guy. But, Exodus needs to step up its game. Alan Chambers performance on Montel was nearly as bad as Cohen's on the Daily Show. Alan needs media training and is clearly not ready for Prime Time.
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    Rick, thank you sir!
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    Wayne I promise you, I have never ever taken someone's underwear away or been concerned about what affect that piece of clothing might or might not have.

    Not once, in any group I was ever a direct part of.

    But of course you will probably document some strange something out of context to show how someone else did.

    I didn't bash you... you are a hateful man when it comes to us. I have plllenty of your old emails and blogposts to prove it. But, I don't want to fight you. I have no reason too.

    All that to say you will spin anything to accomplish your goals of trying to destroy the authenticity of our lives. Of course it serves your purposes to try and connect Richard and Exodus where none exist today.

    Richard has never been a referral of Exodus. At this rate he never will be. As for Alan, thanks for the advice but I don't think the two can even be compared. Richard went into it knowing what he was getting into, Alan was ambushed. Richard purposefully does sensational things whereas Alan does his level best to get our message out there with humility, honesty and grace.

    Thanks for the well wishes, mine rest with you also.
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    Hi Randy!

    Can you really say that Alan was "ambushed" on Montel's show? I think there is a fair amount of skepticism in the world at large when it comes to ministries like Exodus that espouse the message that "change is possible". Whether it is deserved skepticism or not remains to be seen. However, to walk into any public appearance outside of the conferences that you guys put on and expect that skepticism to not be there would seem to me to not be living in a "real" world.

    I didn't come away feeling like Alan was "ambushed." Montel was obviously skeptical of what you guys do. I was a bit surprised to see that Alan was not a little more prepared for that skepticism.

    Anyway, I said all of that to say that my personal opinion was that "ambushed" might not be the bet choice of words. I'm sure it was tough on Alan though.

    j.
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    Richard knew what he was getting into but Randy was ambushed?

    That's ridiculous. Has Randy never watched day time television? He had to have known he wasn't going into a friendly environment. Was there discussion at Exodus as to whether he should appear on Montel or was that his decision? Whatever, the result made Richard look like the mature and reasoned voice of ex-gays. Yikes!

    Richard may not have known that The Daily Show would cut and paste his interview together with Wayne's part, but he had to have known that it's a satiric program. I can't imagine what he thinks going on these shows. If I were his patient, I would be embarassed to be associated with him.

    While organizationally, Exodus may not be connected to Richard, when Alan goes on the same show with him it's not unreasonable to group him and Exodus together. Lie down with dogs and you'll get up with fleas.
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    Ambushed yes, 2.5 hours went into the total of 37 minutes air time. It was an ambush in that the invitation to participate was presented to him in a totally different context. He did not know that all of those other people were going to be there.
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    It was an ambush in that the invitation to participate was presented to him in a totally different context.

    Could you please elaborate? What did Alan think he was getting into?
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    Not really, I wasn't there and have only heard reports from those involved. Plus, this thread is about The Daily Show.
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    True, and The Daily Show bit was just hilarious! It made Cohen seem like even more of a jacka** than he already seemed. Who is his PR guy anyway?

    j.
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    I don't know who is Richard's PR guy. I don't think Richard is a jacka* but I think they did an excellent job of making him look like one.
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    The Daily Show clip was simultaneously sad and hilarious.

    I agree with you, Randy, because my experience going through an Exodus ministry was nothing close to what Cohen described on the Daily show (or what Mr. Besen described here).

    I was never shamed for my feelings, temptations or even my behavior by those who worked at New Creation Ministries. Rather, I was brought to a deeper understanding about and more mature way of handling feelings and relationships.
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    I too have been in several different ex-gay groups, probably seen around 4 therapists in total (I've moved around the country a lot), and not once was I ever told to do anything even remotely close to aything described by Richard Cohen, or by Besen's book. I felt shame in gay affirmative therapy, and lost all of it in reorientation therapy.

    That's not to say it doesn't happen, but my personal experience tells me if it does happen, it's rare.
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    Thank you Mike and Andrew for sharing your thoughts and experiences. You reflect what everyone I know who lives life beyond homosexuality experiences.
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    Hey Randy! I agree with your thoughts completely! AND CAN I JUST RANT A LITTLE HERE? I don’t make it out here often in the blog world, too busy helping people who want help! Okay, so here I go! I want to RANT about Montel, the media buzz this week, Cohen and gay activists who are mockers!

    I am so tired of the ridiculous arguments put forth by people like Wayne Besen. (I agree with you, one does not have to look too far to understand that Wayne is a mocker and a very mean spirited person…). They – the gay activists, just don’t get IT, and they will not get IT(change) without their eyes being opened; sad, but true. However, we are to proclaim it for those who will hear.

    The issue of change for most people in our ministries is IT – change – IS about a relationship of FAITH in a God whom no one has physically seen, but they KNOW He exists! Our rights to have faith in God are constitutionally protected! THANK GOD! He does exist and He changes hearts and lives!

    Change – a different direction in life; turning or the biblical word is repent by BELIEVING… Why is it so difficult and threatening to the gay community? Could it be that there really is a God and they know it? Could it be that there really is only a few, a minority, who will actually follow Christ fully and they hate it? If they only knew who their father was in believing the lie. It is written! It has been foretold! Where? In the Bible! AND OF COURSE there are going to be people who fall back into sin and brokenness! If they only understood the beauty of the Cross of Jesus Christ, but alas that is revealed divinely as well. You have to want it. Could it be that it is very threatening in their brokenness and living in an immoral life as described by the Holy Scriptures? It only takes a 5th grade education to read it in black and white; the Scriptures are CLEAR concerning a condemnation of living in a sinful lifestyle of any kind of sexual impurity. Exodus ministries are about believing in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel and the New Testament are clear about the last days… men will be mockers and lovers of themselves… lovers of pleasure. They will actually acquire teachers, even PhDs who will appeal to their appetites, their DESIRES. I will NOT be afraid to speak the good news, the Biblical truths. I will not be cornered into silence; I MUST continue to proclaim liberty and freedom through Jesus Christ our Lord even if it does seem ridiculous. Freedom and liberty is NEVER without struggle… even if it is an entire life time… SO WHAT! We were never promised a life absent of struggle! Quite the opposite ~ tribulation. I think they are ridiculous to think otherwise and so does God… HE LAUGHS! Now that is a fearful thought!

    “If they hated Me they will hate you.” – Jesus Christ. Doesn’t sound like good news, but the final chapter to THE Book is great!

    This really is their crisis; it is a crisis of their own FAITH. This really is NOT about having a great amount of faith. It is about having faith to begin. They do not understand, and saying they do understand, they are still blind. You really do have to feel sorry for the many who are believing “THE LIE” – “hath God really said.” (Gen 3, Rom. 1) And they mock HIM, even as they mock us who want to follow Christ fully. There is coming a day when they will become violent, calling bitter – sweet, sweet – bitter and then their sweet revenge will grow to a dark hatred and violence; the very people who preach no to hate and say tolerance!

    It is unfortunate that Cohen portrays reparative therapy very goofy. I think he means well. However, it is so strange! The only thing that is remotely close to his touch therapy would be normal holy relational bonding with safe people… this is certainly beneficial to those who are touched deprived or only relate in a sexual ways to touch. This is better in the family or the community in the Church, not in therapy. I still like him; I just wish he would listen to you!

    About Montel, no doubt from reading Alan’s blog it was a spiritually and an emotionally negative environment to say the least. Alan Chambers did a great job! (I sure love you guys! You are terrific!) As Exodus ministries we should be reminded to serve / minister to those who WANT help, and turn away those who do not… just like Christ, especially when they are young. I was sad about the young man’s story forced into ministry. I have found it takes YEARS to mature and fully understand root issues, and the anatomy of temptation and sin; there is always time, even if parents are grieving. We must always pray and wait.

    Oh! I so wanted to ask the Ms. Abomination Lady on Montel if she has ever had a practice or known of a practice in therapy and/or counseling where there weren’t any complainers? Again, it seems ridiculous, and it was so slighted on Montel, it was so stacked against our view. OF COURSE! You are going to have people who don’t make it or follow Christ, or turn away from destructive homosexual practices or any other life destructive practices for by which someone goes to therapy. There are always going to be critics to ever practice, ministry, church or people care giving institutions! Get a grip gay community… there are those who don’t want to be gay anymore! I left homosexuality 25 years ago! There are many more people out here who have left who never testify! They are living heterosexual lives, going on in life and not looking back… PEOPLE CAN CHANGE WHATEVER THEY WANT TOO, even gender by surgery, so why not homosexuality to heterosexuality. Oh they applaud those who go through gender reassignment, as radical as it is, but condemn and mock those who embrace a change of direction in life to follow God. I thought it was ridiculous of Montel to embrace a practicing prostitute as a legitimate occupation, but scoff at ministries helping those who desire help.

    Okay so this was my random rant for the month! I know it was long... will you forgive me?
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    WOW... I guess after looking at the comment... WHICH IS RARE BY ME... one might think... Blog on your own site! LOL! Thank God you are a very patient and kind man!
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    Goodness gracious Stephen ::: laugh :::

    Well, you let out a lot of information there and I am going to let it stand and not punt you back to your own blog because I think it might generate good discussion.

    At the same time,,, I hope you will be accountable to your statements if someone else questions them. You don't have to of course but it isn't like there aren't gay identified people "in the room." I wouldn't be surprised if they are ... ummm ... challenged :) by your comments.
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    A better word might be... amused. :)

    Randy, you look beautiful in the photo! Sounds as if you are well, and that makes me happy.

    I really enjoyed your comments on the Cohen Daily Show appearance. The empathy for Richard's bewildering situation radiated through every word.

    Nearly spat out my coffee when I read that you had had lunch with Wayne. That is awesome. And it's proof that my friend Mr. Besen *is* and *can be* mild-mannered. And surely Wayne will admit that sometimes he is not. Who among us is all one thing?

    Hang out more often. You're both fine men.
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    Hi Natalie, as always, it is good to see you. Thank you for being happy for me and the very nice compliment.

    As for "amused" I will leave that between you and Stephen. As for "empathy" ... are you serious? I am not reading a lot of empathy into my words about Cohen. Maybe there is a definition (application?) of empathy I am not aware of :).

    As for hanging out with Wayne, as long as we are talking about anything other than homosexuality, religion, politics or culture ... we get along great!

    :)